Blocking (restriction) on the forum objectionable (unprofitable) users (the purpose of creating a forum)

Yes, we limit the forum to economically unprofitable clients. One answer on the forum costs me 80 UAH (without taxes, etc.). If a client bought a box, paid a fixed price for it for a long time, and then asks 10 questions a day on the forum, then after a couple of months the client becomes economically unprofitable, we cut off his ability to write and ask endlessly. You need more - choose an integrator and buy services from him, if he wants to provide them, of course (I'm not forcing anyone). It was your answers on the forum that led to the fact that in a couple of weeks the forum will be governed by simple rules: - after verification, N questions are added (for example, 10 questions) - for each correct answer +1 question - for every $10 for cloud licenses +1 question - the integrator paid the commission - get a pack of questions for the forum - asked a question - minus 1 question and so on. The bottom line is that users not only ask, but also answer too. Do you just want to ask? Then buy the cloud and pay all the time. It will not be possible to buy questions separately, only to buy OneBox cloud.

With such rules, it's not very similar to a forum, it's more like a task tracking system, where there is a responsible person (who receives a salary for his work (80 UAH)). You didn’t say anything about comment limits, but they just make it possible to answer, I would be happy to answer, but my limit of 2-3 comments per day (the system somehow considers it incomprehensible) does not give me the opportunity to answer even on my tasks, to the questions of the developers, that is, I need to wait a day to answer Tyndyk to his question in the problem. That is, I ask you to clarify about the comments, what will be the restrictions on them?

[quote] That is, I ask you to clarify about the comments, what will be the restrictions on them? [/quote] So far, I can't answer this question.

[quote] Miroshnichenko Maxim Alexandrovich OneBox CEO wrote: So far, I can't answer this question. [/quote] You can temporarily remove the restriction on comments, since 2 comments per day is very cruel :) ?

I am satisfied with the decision when I help other clients on the forum, but in return I get the opportunity to create a task, but in order for this system to work, I need to be able to answer clients' tasks in the comments. Can you give the opportunity to answer in the tasks of clients?

[quote] I am satisfied with the decision when I help other clients on the forum, but in return I get the opportunity to create a task, but in order for this system to work, I need to be able to answer clients' tasks in the comments. Can you give the opportunity to answer in the tasks of clients? [/quote] Later, when this system becomes available to all users.

[quote] Miroshnichenko Maxim Alexandrovich OneBox CEO wrote: Later, when this system becomes available to all users. [/quote] It just comes out some kind of tin with comments Let's say I created 3 tasks (in my opinion these are bugs) And now the developers are clarifying the details, but I can only answer twice a day and nonsense comes out Then the messages "Mark the correct answer" come, and I can't even "move" the developer Here is the task https://crm-onebox.com/en/support/business-processes/7639-deystvie-quotdodati-produkti-z-odnogo-protsesu-v-inshiyquot-perestalo-normalno-rabotat-hotya-ranshe-vse- rabotalo-normalno--shoporderstatusactionaddproductsuniversal/ They write to me on 17.03 "I'll look in the near future" What is the "nearest time" is not at all clear to me and I can’t even clarify, because there are more important tasks where you need to answer And some nonsense comes out Or do you think it's okay?

Yes, I think it's okay. I have already described above that any answer costs me 80 UAH. Therefore, from economically unprofitable users, I will deliberately restrain the flow of questions and comments, stretching it in time. (In simple words, I specifically restrict you and several other users from posting anything on the forum). If you don't like it - pay money, choose an integrator, negotiate with them so that they answer you promptly and do not "restrict".

[quote] What is the "nearest time" is not at all clear to me and I can’t even clarify, because there are more important tasks where you need to answer [/quote] They want to answer, they want not to answer, I can’t do anything. The OneBox business is paid cloud users. Everything else just doesn't interest me.

[quote] Miroshnichenko Maxim Alexandrovich OneBox CEO wrote: They want to answer, they want not to answer, I can’t do anything. [/quote] There is some dissonance On the one hand, there is a strict control of the "forum" (blocking / limits) and the argument that this is all the developer's RFP, on the other hand, there is information that the "forum" is a tool that should help everyone, including developers, so that users can help themselves and developers could behave in the style of "they want to answer, they want not to answer." I would like to clarify this: 1. Do the developers now have some kind of procedure / obligation to respond to all the tasks of the forum, or everything rests purely on desire (that is, if the developer has antipathy for the client, then he may not respond or he is obliged to solve the problem since this is a bug that can manifest itself and other clients)? 2. Are there any deadlines for solving the bug (for example, they answered me here more than a month ago and silence https://crm-onebox.com/en/support/business-processes/4754-povtorenie-problemi-perehoda-v-odin- i-tot-zhe-status-2-raza/ should I wait at all and write something there) ? 3. In what direction will the forum develop into a more independent system from developers, that is, some kind of independent environment where clients and integrators communicate, or will it be more of a system for fixing bugs (problems similar to a bug) in which there will be strict management mechanisms on the part of developers?

1. No. 2. No. 3. It will be a self-regulating environment where 1 question = 1 answer. To ask a question, you must first answer someone and help.

[quote] Miroshnichenko Maxim Alexandrovich OneBox CEO wrote: 3. It will be a self-regulating environment where 1 question = 1 answer. To ask a question, you must first answer someone and help. [/quote] I already see results When creating a question, it shows the number of available And after creating the task, it shows a warning "You have run out of the available number of questions. Answer on the forum to replenish the balance of questions" 1. Can you make it so that there is a similar thing in the comments, so that before writing a comment I understand that I have no way to leave them? 2. You can somehow expand the comment limit from 2 to more, because 2 comments are some kind of mockery, you can’t even really answer a day, plus having two comments a day there is no way to adequately help someone in a decision and thereby earn question ?

We'll get to the comments a little later (this week)

Already felt the changes! I now have a real bug in the system (products are not imported into the system, what used to work does not work now, but I did not change anything) I can't post a bug that says "You have run out of available questions. Answer on the forum to replenish the balance of questions" Max, well, this is some kind of nonsense, I have a job, I can’t update products and download data from the outlet, and I quit all work and run to the forum, look for someone to answer and wait for him to note that I helped him (with my 2 comments per day) 1. Do you think this is normal? 2. Where to write (your official position, that is, I understand that you can buy something, etc., I want to understand your position in relation to bugs) if the client is on a free cloud (1 license on a free plan) and he has a bug and he does not understand vanbox to get an answer and earn a question?

Vlad, I'll tell you straight: you're tired of procrastinating the same topic in a circle. 1. Yes, this is normal. Answer the question for yourself: why and on the basis of what is OneBox obliged to solve your questions and problems? You don't pay money for anything. You don't bring clients. You are not a paying customer. Everything that we have done here for you is solely due to my kindness of heart and the kindness of Igor Ustimenko, and for my money. If you as a client will not be for us, we will exhale with relief. You're trying to build your business by parasitizing OneBox. We don't love you for this. 2. The official position for the boxes = the client buys AS IS software, everything that happens 1 second after installation on the client's server will be the client's problem, which will probably be solved through the forum for free. If this does not bother the client, there are a lot of partners who will dance in front of the client for money. But not OneBox. The official position on the cloud = exactly the same, only with an amendment: we will do exactly the minimum so that the client does not stop paying. If the client stops paying, we stop doing it. If the client gives an ultimatum "I'll leave if you don't do something," then we turn on the math: if it's more expensive than conditionally 3-6 months of rent, let it disappear, we won't do it. https://crm-onebox.com/ru/prices/#support

I will add: official position on the free cloud plan: we give customers a free cloud plan for 1 user with minimal cloud resources and are ready to answer questions in the hope that he will someday become a paid client. But, the number of these questions is 10 pieces. If the client needs more, then let him give something in return: buy a paid tariff or help someone else on the forum.

[quote] Miroshnichenko Maxim Alexandrovich OneBox CEO wrote: 1. Yes, this is normal. Answer the question for yourself: why and on the basis of what is OneBox obliged to solve your questions and problems? You don't pay money for anything. You don't bring clients. You are not a paying customer. Everything that we have done here for you is solely due to my kindness of heart and the kindness of Igor Ustimenko, and for my money. If you as a client will not be for us, we will exhale with relief. You're trying to build your business by parasitizing OneBox. We don't love you for this. [/quote] Interesting take on things :) I will answer the question "why and on what basis is OneBox obliged to solve your questions and problems?", but judging by your answer, our logic is completely different Answers: 1. Because I am a client who once bought 3 licenses (yes, by barter, on account of salary) but bought a product that has the declared functionality, but at the same time it stopped working for me 2. I once worked in another company that developed accounting software, I also previously wrote code for the company and I had a completely different view of the bug, they tried to solve it as much as possible and fix it for customers who have not yet encountered this bug, which so that they would not have unpleasant feelings about the product and that we would not waste time processing the request for this bug, therefore we were very interested in the bug, and in your position you solve only the bugs of those customers who pay you money, or rather, I so I understand you are moving there Regarding "You are trying to build your business on parasites on OneBox" - well, this is of course "spit" I can also say that you parasitize on clients who pay money and on clients who have become free testers for you This is all the philosophy of relationships, I also understand you that there are “mosquito” clients who constantly sting and need to get rid of them, I also have my own view on the service, and plus there is a mentality to get the best for a lower price. I ask you to hear another point of view I am sure that impulsive actions that are currently happening with the product scare customers. If, of course, the goal is to get rid of old unprofitable customers, then you will achieve it, but in my understanding, the business is based on loyal regular customers and word of mouth, and not on new products. I previously considered the forum a "breakthrough" I thought it would be an environment where clients would communicate and write possible solutions, create their own topics in which to describe solutions, but now the forum is turning into a task book for fixing bugs and ratings, you have created a system where for the correct answer you get the opportunity to ask one question for the developer, but if you look at the task now, it’s mostly in the topic: bug, evaluate, error, server, etc. that is, 70-90% are questions for developers, in these questions there are links to customer boxes where access is needed, that is, it is very difficult to earn bonuses somehow. In general, from the point of view of the client, this all only pushes away from the product Now it turns out that in order to fix the bug, I need to pay money, and this can’t even be solved, it’s just to write it somewhere (I understand that later there will be a lot of questions like here https://crm-onebox.com/en/support/ price-platforms-and-marketplaces/7472-v-xml-vigruzhaet-foto-kotoroe-nedostupno-vigruzka-na-rozetku--rozetka/ or here https://crm-onebox.com/en/support/business-processes /7639-deystvie-quotdodati-produkti-z-odnogo-protsesu-v-inshiyquot-perestalo-normalno-rabotat-hotya-ranshe-vse-rabotalo-normalno--shoporderstatusactionaddproductsuniversal/ a lot of clarifications, because bugs don’t bring money) and not the fact that there will be a solution, but so that there would not even be an opportunity to fix a bug, I have not seen this, even in free products there is a call system

It’s a completely logical solution, I also see as a development option the issuance of certificates on the basics of the system documentation (there is already a lot of information on YouTube and in the documentation to build what you need ... If this is not enough, it will be possible to enroll in paid courses - lasting from 3 to 12 months (such as Mikrotik certification) HERE there are different certification programs (paid). And if a user cannot understand a complex system using free documentation, then study for money ... A forum is not a free system for teaching how to work in a complex system ... I had a pleasant impression of the work of the forum, when identifying bugs, of course, I use arguments that the developer understands and bugs are eliminated ... Thank you very much to everyone who benefits! If there is not enough knowledge to understand C++, it is not the developer of the C++ language or the authors of books on C++ that is to blame .... Study, learn, communicate - negotiate paid consultations....

Vlad, pay attention to my answers on the forum, not only in this thread, but in general. I try to answer a specific question in plain text AND / OR give the client possible solutions to his problem. There is no specific question in your last comment, it's just your opinion. Do I hear you - of course yes, but I will not adapt to you. I don't need to be nice to everyone. It even suits me that 99.99% will hate me. I don't care. I live and build different products not to make everyone feel good. I know my audience. Therefore, your and someone else's arguments that you don't like something or that you consider my attitude/position/opinion to be wrong will not break me or convince me. I will not argue whether you bought a box or not, with discounts, barter or not. This can be dealt with, but not the point. I recognize you as a box customer who bought an AS IS box 5-6 years ago. According to the laws of Ukraine, the estimated life of the software is from 2 to 5 years. This means that no matter what the contract is, after 2-5 years the manufacturer's liability becomes 0. Therefore, I offer you the following options for solving your question "something breaks in boxing, I want them to fix it quickly": Option 1 You write to the OneBox Dev integrator (Igor Ustimenko) and say "how much money and under what conditions we can work." If Igor refuses, choose one of the following options. Option 2 You write to any other partner and ask to work with developers through him. Yes, I am aware that so far there is only one development team, and everything depends on it. And if some client blows her mind, this client will only make it worse for himself. Option 3 You help other OneBox customers on the forum, we start to love and respect you, in exchange we will answer your questions. Option 4 If you're good at coding, don't use those OneBox integrations that depend on external providers. As a developer, you know that any third-party API can change, break, and this will create a whole cascade of problems along the chain. Get goods from OneBox via REST API, fill them with your own scripts on the outlet with your own scripts. The OneBox API doesn't change or break (no complaints, forum proof). If something doesn’t pour into your outlet, then either you or the outlet will be to blame. Option 5 You sue TOV WEBPRODUCTION in court (for one try to draw up a court claim). Right at the first meeting, we will say "yes, there is such a client, we know about his problems, we are ready to recognize the contract as invalid." On the same day when the court decision takes legal effect, the money will be in your account, and your box will be deleted with all the data (although you can back up the data in XLS / CSV). In simple words: if you don't like the way OneBox works, officially give it up. Option 6 Become a cloud client. For example, if you buy Tariff-5, then you will have about 12 questions per month. We will do everything to ensure that you do not stop paying or your "requests" do not exceed the cost of the tariff.

[quote] Kupriyan Vladislav Valerievich Baza.cn.ua / Integrator (FOP Kupriyan) wrote: I previously considered the forum a "breakthrough" I thought it would be an environment where clients would communicate and write possible solutions, create their own topics in which to describe solutions, but now the forum is turning into a task book for fixing bugs and ratings, you have created a system where for the correct answer you get the opportunity to ask one question for the developer, but if you look at the task now, it’s mostly in the topic: bug, evaluate, error, server, etc. that is, 70-90% are questions for developers, in these questions there are links to customer boxes where access is needed, that is, it is very difficult to earn bonuses somehow. [/quote] I completely agree with Vladislav. This not normal. It should be possible to report, without any restrictions, at least a feature that has stopped working (which happens from time to time). Yes, the forum is an interesting idea, but in fact the practical benefit of it is only that questions are seen by several people who can help. Those. the vast majority of tasks are personal appeals for non-working functionality or improvements. I'm interested in a few tweaks and clarification of how functions work, for which there are no comprehensive instructions anywhere. There is also a list of bugs (functions that really stopped working as before). And after all these tickets, I will no longer have the opportunity to report a critical issue? Or do you propose to spend hours of time and do customer support on the forum? It is also necessary that your answer eventually turns out to be marked as correct, when almost all questions can only be solved by developers. Your idea of helping each other with clients works 10% here. Clients are entrepreneurs who are busy with their projects, for whom time is the most valuable resource. OneBox is a complex system with a bunch of non-obvious nuances in the form of settings that depend on each other. And paying integrators for the opportunity to report that at one fine moment your functions just fall off and you find out about it in the middle of the working day is, to put it mildly, strange. If you have problems with the number of questions on the forum, then find a more fair and logical solution. - If one client has a lot of questions, then answer them gradually, let there be an understanding that many questions take longer to answer. - Do not remove bonuses for reporting a bug, for completed improvements. - Make a section in which you can write tickets without restrictions on periodically occurring critical problems, such as falling off crowns. Yes, this problem only affects those who bought the box. But don't you build too many walls, leaving only one way out to cloud rates? Such restrictions do not really fit with your described attitude towards old customers: [quote] From an economic point of view, you cannot give OneBox OS to old customers who once paid for OneBox CRM + ERP one-time. From a legal point of view, giving OneBox OS to old customers is also not necessary. But for moral and ethical reasons, you can’t “throw” such clients, after all, OneBox will appear partly thanks to them, they believed and invested in it. [/quote] Please step into the shoes of these old customers and reconsider the issue of support.

[quote] Farkhshatov Rodion shine-bright.com.ua wrote: [quote] Kupriyan Vladislav Valerievich Baza.cn.ua / Integrator (FOP Kupriyan) wrote: I previously considered the forum a "breakthrough" I thought it would be an environment where clients would communicate and write possible solutions, create their own topics in which to describe solutions, but now the forum is turning into a task book for fixing bugs and ratings, you have created a system where for the correct answer you get the opportunity to ask one question for the developer, but if you look at the task now, it’s mostly in the topic: bug, evaluate, error, server, etc. that is, 70-90% are questions for developers, in these questions there are links to customer boxes where access is needed, that is, it is very difficult to earn bonuses somehow. [/quote] I completely agree with Vladislav. This not normal. It should be possible to report, without any restrictions, at least a feature that has stopped working (which happens from time to time). Yes, the forum is an interesting idea, but in fact the practical benefit of it is only that questions are seen by several people who can help. Those. the vast majority of tasks are personal appeals for non-working functionality or improvements. I'm interested in a few tweaks and clarification of how functions work, for which there are no comprehensive instructions anywhere. There is also a list of bugs (functions that really stopped working as before). And after all these tickets, I will no longer have the opportunity to report a critical issue? Or do you propose to spend hours of time and do customer support on the forum? It is also necessary that your answer eventually turns out to be marked as correct, when almost all questions can only be solved by developers. Your idea of helping each other with clients works 10% here. Clients are entrepreneurs who are busy with their projects, for whom time is the most valuable resource. OneBox is a complex system with a bunch of non-obvious nuances in the form of settings that depend on each other. And paying integrators for the opportunity to report that at one fine moment your functions just fall off and you find out about it in the middle of the working day is, to put it mildly, strange. If you have problems with the number of questions on the forum, then find a more fair and logical solution. - If one client has a lot of questions, then answer them gradually, let there be an understanding that many questions take longer to answer. - Do not remove bonuses for reporting a bug, for completed improvements. - Make a section in which you can write tickets without restrictions on periodically occurring critical problems, such as falling off crowns. Yes, this problem only affects those who bought the box. But don't you build too many walls, leaving only one way out to cloud rates? Such restrictions do not really fit with your described attitude towards old customers: [quote] From an economic point of view, you cannot give OneBox OS to old customers who once paid for OneBox CRM + ERP one-time. From a legal point of view, giving OneBox OS to old customers is also not necessary. But for moral and ethical reasons, you can’t “throw” such clients, after all, OneBox will appear partly thanks to them, they believed and invested in it. [/quote] Please step into the shoes of these old customers and reconsider the issue of support. [/quote] Look at the situation from the other side. The sites that host Google Market applications, the App Store charge a percentage for storage and quality control (security compliance) of repositories ... They charge a large percentage, and of course some people want to post their applications for free and use a powerful resource for free. But the Google Market and the APP Store live and develop only THANKS to those who share their profits with those who help new users download their application... After all, no one needs the One Box developers to close the project today due to lack of profit. Yes, there are whales who bought and use the product and do not invest in development, but what will this lead to? To the closure of Van Box and then what will everyone do without the development team, who did not manage to make a profit from fixing new bugs in a timely manner?

Vladislav, you have 180 tickets in 9 months, that's 20 tickets per month. Please do not distract our developers, contact only with important valuable comments, you are not the only one using the product and give the developers the right to decide for themselves which identified bug is critical and urgent, and which one is needed only by you, and if you really need to solve it urgently, pay .. .

I've always liked vanbox technically - I've always said boxing is technically ahead of everyone. But support has always been a big fly in the ointment in a barrel of honey. With the return of Maxim, there was hope that everything would work out. Alas. I understand that there are problem customers, maybe I am too, but with such a vision of customer loyalty, you should not expect loyalty. IMHO. Nothing personal, just an outsider's perspective.

[quote] Poltorak Sergey wrote: contact only with important valuable comments [/quote] Who sets the importance? How can I tell if this bug is only affecting me or someone else? It's a bug that it creates problems in work, what difference does it make how critical it is and whether it is possible to adapt to work with it, you don't even let you report it, limiting the number of messages. Ok, decide as much as you need, identify criticality, respond longer, but do not limit the number of tickets for customers with a box.

[quote] Ok, decide as much as you need, identify criticality, respond longer, but do not limit the number of tickets for customers with a box. [/quote] A counter question: who will ultimately pay for the answers on the forum? Cloud users? A very specific example: User bought 1 license = +400 USD And he asked 200 questions on the forum x 80 UAH = -571 USD. Profit = minus 171 USD. This is not even counting development costs, installation costs, sales commissions, taxes, office rent, and a bunch of other things.

[quote] Farkhshatov Rodion shine-bright.com.ua wrote: [quote] Poltorak Sergey wrote: contact only with important valuable comments [/quote] Who sets the importance? How can I tell if this bug is only affecting me or someone else? It's a bug that it creates problems in work, what difference does it make how critical it is and whether it is possible to adapt to work with it, you don't even let you report it, limiting the number of messages. Ok, decide as much as you need, identify criticality, respond longer, but do not limit the number of tickets for customers with a box. [/quote] So the limit on the maximum number of messages should be correlated with the number of licenses... Different categories of clients, large clients still cannot be equated with small ones...